During the presentation, Dr. Wagner references a conversation with Mark Chandler, VP and General Counsel of Cisco, where he compared two different types of employees – one who set 5 goals for him or herself and met all 5 with no problems versus the employee who set 10 goals for him or herself, and reached only 8 of them. He said the second example is the ideal, because he knows that he or she is setting stretch goals for themself, which is the only way Cisco can stay competitive. Businesses need employees who are stretching the envelope, to risk failure in the quest for the next innovation.