we have argued so far that weber's definition of the state provides a good starting point for our critique because it makes it possible to distinguish state from government. but this raises an important historicaL issue which we must now tackle- namely the question of when the state itself arises. Is the state as Weber defines it a purely modern phenomenon or can we speak of the state existing in ancient, medieval and pre-modern times? This is an historical question which has important implications for the way we construe the Weberian definition