Neither penance nor purism are likely substitutes for the pride and pleasure that people take in familiar landscape patterns. Over the decades of the life of any designed landscape, penance or purism is unlikely to work. What will work is to acknowledge that cultural expectations and human pleasure will continue to be measures of ecological function, at least in everyday experience. Orderly frames are not a means of dominating ecological phenomena for the sake of human pleasure. Orderly frames can be used to construct a widely recognizable cultural framework for ecological quality.