I would like to hear from owners of either of these two bikes. The good , the bad ,the ugly. I don't want to start another thread that trashes Taiwanese and Chinese manufactured bikes. I've heard enough of that to last quite a while. I have looked at but not ridden either one. The build quality looks decent enough and the Chinese have made some real improvements in QC, but actual use and ownership experience goes a long way towards determining whether these are worth owning.