Although i read from previous comments that the fact about the Chinese is not true, i think it doesn't matter all too much. The idea is wonderful nevertheless and gives a very good example to encourage people to question the "so obvious" and see things upside down. I use the very same technique in my everyday work and it works wonders - at least gets ideas going, if not loads more. Thanks, was a really inspiring two minutes words the wave had been squared ...as if stretching the circle apart till dfioameter stretches to radius,,,and pye is squared