Most respondents made a distinction between `viruses' and `hackers.' To them, these are two separate threats that can both cause problems. Some people believed that viruses are created by hackers, but they still usually saw them as distinct threats. A few respondents realized this and tried to describe the difference; for example at one point in the interview Irving tries to explain the distinction by saying "The hacker is an individual hacking, while the virus is a program infecting." After some thought, he clarifies his idea of the difference a bit: "So it's a difference between something automatic and more personal.