Scholars have cautioned against assuming that a more active, substantive, "communitarian" democracy will result in a "better" community (Conway 1996). They also note that a pure, classical, republican society may have serious consequences for individual liberty. Societies of the past that exhibited a greater commitment to shared governance often did so at the expense of groups excluded from the definition of citizenship, such as women, outsiders, and slaves in ancient Athens (Phillips 1993). However, it may not be necessary to abandon hard-earned progress on pluralism and individual rights and liberties to gain ground on substantive democracy (Dagger 1997 3-7). Nor need substantive democracy represent an extreme departure from what we know and feel comfortable with today