Finally, informal education proposes that measurement is unnecessary, harmful and counter-productive. True measurement cannot be achieved as the informal educator will have only `limited insight into the impact of the experiences [they] are involved with` (Jeffs and Smith, 1996: 51). For this reason measurement is not accepted or practised by the informal educator, instead they must trust in the educational potential of conversation. `Conversation is an activity to be valued in itself – not just for where it may lead` (ibid. 23).