failed road. And so I am saying, let's invest dramatically more in research and development into green energy. Because, fundamentally as long as solar panels cost 10 times as much fossil fuels, a few rich, well meaning westerners will put them up on their rooftops. If we can make solar panels cheaper than fossil fuels, we would have solved global warming. SPITZER: Totally agree. Totally agree. LOMBORG: And so we -- but the trick because we focus so much on cutting carbon emissions, we actually spend less, not more on investment in research and development. SPITZER: It seems to me that given the cataclysmic risk we should do both. LOMBORG: But, we haven't done one of them, namely cutting carbon emissions, because it's very costly. And I'll say every time you spend a dollar on cutting carbon emissions, which is fairly costly, it means you can spend less on research and development or to put it differently, if you can find $100 billion, I would rather not see us saying